The Flatwoods Monster

[00:00:19] Hello everybody, welcome to Enter The Rift Podcast season 1 episode 2. I'm your host Kenning,

[00:00:26] joining me as my brother, Garrett. Yo!

[00:00:29] On today's episode we will be discussing the Flatwoods Monster, Bracks and County.

[00:00:34] So also known as Degree Monster.

[00:00:36] Yes. This main story occurred back in the 1950s, early 1950s, in the year 1952,

[00:00:44] in Bracks and County, West Virginia, which is the geographical center of the state.

[00:00:50] And it's still a very rural place today, but even more so back in the 1950s,

[00:00:56] back in 1952, the town of Flatwoods only had a population around 280 people. So this is a dairy

[00:01:04] dairy small town. Yeah, it was actually very surprised at like the actual like a census

[00:01:10] of like the numbers of people that actually currently live there. I was actually surprised

[00:01:15] like it's what 200 in something. It was 288 and 1950, and today with more recent census data,

[00:01:25] it's only about 411. So it stayed pretty consistent over the years. So it's only about

[00:01:31] a little over 100 people bigger now. Yeah, which is actually shocking, especially after

[00:01:38] whole baby boom situation. You were assumed that there would have been more people there.

[00:01:43] I mean, the baby boom lasted from what? 1940, five, two, 60, two. I want to say.

[00:01:54] Yeah, it was around there. So it was soon to be a lot more population group.

[00:01:59] Yeah. But this would just, I'd be to say that to give an idea of how how small this town is

[00:02:07] and how maybe how different things were back in the early 1950s. This was also the height of

[00:02:14] the UFO craze I would say, or this was only about five years after Roswell in 1947. So UFOs,

[00:02:23] aliens and extraterrestrials were all on the height of everyone's mind back then, or maybe not

[00:02:29] everybody, but it was a very popular subject. Yeah, if I remember right, one of the boys who was

[00:02:37] nine-witness was really into sci-fi comics and stuff. And I believe that's why some of the

[00:02:44] people may have discounted him at the time when he first said about it because a lot of people

[00:02:50] believe that it was an asteroid until what was it, and then we're going to get into it. But I

[00:02:55] believe it was two hours after he said to his mother that they saw a UFO that she believed

[00:03:02] it was an asteroid. After the fact, a couple days after what there was a big turn and how the

[00:03:08] main eyewitnesses were treated and that would definitely be part of the blame. They they were

[00:03:13] they did say later that the main witnesses were just making it up but they misidentified things

[00:03:19] and we'll get into that. Yeah, maybe misremembering with the Kentucky Goblin story with the boy

[00:03:25] of the comic books. Maybe misconstruiting this. Yeah, I don't recall reading about anything

[00:03:31] about comic books from the flatwoods monster case but that could very well have happened.

[00:03:37] They did try to discredit them after the fact. Yeah, so Kenny I don't know if you remember

[00:03:42] or not but when we were kids, the show Monster Quest came out and I know that's when we

[00:03:48] were first introduced to the flatwoods monster. Oh yeah, the history channel. Yeah, yeah, so

[00:03:54] I remember being like totally glued to the screen as soon as Monster Quest become one

[00:04:00] of that and a animal plant's lost tapes even though that shit gave me nightmares.

[00:04:06] Mostly just because of the unsettling vibes, not really does scary content except for the vampire.

[00:04:10] So that was pretty messed up. I remember like the first time we saw Monster Quest that

[00:04:15] that had me glued the old CRT TV. Yeah, it was a pretty good episode from what I remember.

[00:04:21] So what's getting to the story? On the night of September 12, 1952, a wave of UFO sightings occurred

[00:04:31] over a large portion of the Eastern United States including Pennsylvania, West Virginia,

[00:04:37] Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, Maryland and Washington, DC. Placing objects were seen

[00:04:44] heartling through the skies and many witnesses thought they were airplanes crashing in flames.

[00:04:50] In flatwoods, a group of 10 boys were playing in a school yard enjoying the Indian summer evening.

[00:04:56] They ranged in age from 10 to 14 years old. The ages of three of them at the time are not known.

[00:05:03] They saw one of these fireballs sore overhead with flames trailing behind it. Before it came

[00:05:08] down on a nearby farm, roamed at the time by a man named Bailey Fisher. These boys ran to investigate

[00:05:14] and they passed by the home of the two boys who were brothers at its in May and Freddie May.

[00:05:20] Their excitement about a landed flying saucer caused their mother Kathleen May

[00:05:25] to join the hunt. As well as 18 year old Eugene Limen, we brought his dog. Five of the boys

[00:05:30] decided to go home. The other five plus the two adults went on through the crash site.

[00:05:36] By then it was about 740 pm and getting dark so they took flashlights.

[00:05:40] They found an object crashing to the earth and sticking out. It appeared to be pulsing in

[00:05:45] brightness. A strange sound like whining or hissing filled the air. There was a violent hue to the air.

[00:05:50] After their arrival, a mysterious frog like Miss began to blank at the area. It had a nauseating

[00:05:57] metallic smell and irritated their thirt's lungs. The dog became agitated, starting barking

[00:06:04] violently and took off. It was later found back in town where it had bombarded on a house for

[00:06:09] Randa, it died soon after. Back at the crash site, the boys and adults had yet to realize that the

[00:06:20] valley and that something living had emerged from it. When they saw it, they had first thought

[00:06:26] that an animal was purchased in nearby tree looking at them. Kathleen May shine her flashlight

[00:06:31] on it and the entire group got a horrible shock. Instead of an animal, they saw a 12-foot tall

[00:06:37] figure, with glowing eyes standing right next to the tree. As soon as the flashlight beam hit it,

[00:06:43] the eyes shut out bright beams of light that illuminated the entire fog filled area.

[00:06:48] The creature seemed to be more of a machine, a metallic casing or suit, or perhaps the

[00:06:54] creature in Satisute. It was dark and color but seemed green to some of the witnesses. Perhaps

[00:07:00] because the metallic-like surface reflected the green of the surrounding trees and bushes,

[00:07:05] it also glowed with light. The middle torso seemed like a cylinder, and the low-attlerso

[00:07:10] fan-doubt like a metallic apron of sorts. Where one might expect arms there were only two

[00:07:16] or an antenna like things sticking straight out. Its head was round and surrounded by a

[00:07:21] stiff coil, or helmet shaped like an ace of spades. The round eyes looked like portals. It had no

[00:07:27] feet but levitated about a foot off the ground and maneuvered around in this manner.

[00:07:33] The creature glided close to Kathleen May who felt a warm mist around it. Without warning,

[00:07:39] it squirted an oily substance all over her clothes. There seemed to be no immediate ill effects

[00:07:44] in the oil, but the nauseating mist continued to burn their throats. The creature left a trail of

[00:07:49] oil on the ground as it glided. Suddenly the horror of it hit the witnesses and all of them

[00:07:54] adults and boys fled back to town as fast as they could run. At the May-Lemon home, Kathleen

[00:08:01] and her boys lived in a house owned by her father, Jill-Iman. At the May-Lemon home, chaos erupted.

[00:08:08] The Mays and Lemen all had trouble breathing, and the boys were bruised and bleeding.

[00:08:12] Probably from their Pell-Mell fight. Lemen vomited all day long. Kathleen's eyes were red and

[00:08:21] teary. Edison and Freddie required medical treatment for their damaged mouths and throats.

[00:08:27] Around 8.15 pm, Kathleen telephone the sheriff's office to report their experience,

[00:08:33] and the sheriff in turn notified the state police. A state trooper telephone to the co-owner

[00:08:38] publisher and fellow journalists for the Braxton Democrat, Ailee Stewart Jr.

[00:08:44] Stewart jumped to join the investigation. He went to the May house and grabbed a group of

[00:08:49] armed men among the Mugene and Joe Lemen and went out to the scene but the monster was dawn.

[00:08:54] Some of its seconding odor lingered behind. Share a Robert Carr meanwhile took two of his dogs

[00:09:00] to the area, but the dogs ran off holling into the fog. He gave up until morning.

[00:09:06] He found his clothing had been stained by some sort of oil. The military was quick to

[00:09:11] become involved. The western Union National Guard was mobilized by the US Air Force and sent

[00:09:16] to flatwoods and also to frame town about 19 miles away, where another fireball in the sky

[00:09:21] had been seen coming down. About 30 troops under the command of Captain Dale Levitt descended on

[00:09:27] the flatwood site by about 13am. They were joined by more troops with the assignment to look for

[00:09:33] down airplane. They found nothing, even though some of them stayed on night. A few troops

[00:09:40] searched the area again in Dale Levitt. Stewart also returned to the scene in early Dale

[00:09:44] and examined some 30 foot long skid marks left in the grass. While he was studying the marks,

[00:09:49] his clothes were stained again by the mysterious oil. He found a small odd piece of silverary

[00:09:54] metal that looked like drip solder. He was the first person to break the story in the press.

[00:10:00] The West Virginia Media reported the UFO lights as meteor-like objects,

[00:10:04] streaking across the sky, seen by numerous witnesses throughout a wide area. The story of

[00:10:10] the monster and how the first witnesses became faint and ill by something it looked like Frankenstein

[00:10:15] spread rapidly. By afternoon, flatwoods was swarming with people looking for evidence in super

[00:10:21] nears. They picked up more bits of metal and pieces of a black plastic life substance and found

[00:10:29] that end just in flatwoods. A young couple and their 18-month-old son encountered the creature near

[00:10:35] frame town on September 13th, terrifying them so badly they didn't speak about it for years.

[00:10:41] George and Edith Sikowski of Queens, New York, had traveled by car to Cincinnati, Ohio,

[00:10:46] to visit a relative. They were on their return trip,

[00:10:50] leisurely taking the secondary roads. Around 8pm, they entered Brachston County

[00:10:54] and traveled along what is now state route 4 between gas away in frame town.

[00:11:00] Their car died without warning, they could not restart the engine. While George tried to figure

[00:11:04] out the problem, the air around them filled with a sickening smell that seemed like a combination

[00:11:08] of Eiffel and burnt sulfur. At first George sought the car and might be burning,

[00:11:13] but that was not the source. The smell originated their baby who began crying.

[00:11:19] As darkness settled in, George was in a quandary, frame town, the nearest town was about

[00:11:24] 12 miles away, too far away for a practical walk. Besides he was reluctant to leave his wife

[00:11:30] and infant alone in the car. Suddenly, a blinding violet light shot out of the woods,

[00:11:35] George opened a window and the interior of the car filled with a choking, nauseating mist.

[00:11:41] Despite the smell he got out to investigate, wretched violently.

[00:11:45] About 200-300 yards away was a luminescent spirit that looked like a giant frosted street lamp.

[00:11:51] If floated in the air and moved back and forth, George walked closer still sick. He began to

[00:11:58] fill hot and then fell a sensation like low-grade electric shock course throughout his body.

[00:12:04] Now frightened he turned to hurry back to the car, but his legs turned rubbery and he fell repeatedly.

[00:12:11] Then he heard Eiffel scream. It was a blood-curdling scream, like a banshee. He lurched back to

[00:12:17] car where he saw a huge, figure illuminated in the light from the spirit. It was about 8-9 feet tall

[00:12:25] and shaped like a man but with a reptilian head. It had shoulders, it weirdly bloated body,

[00:12:32] and a lowered torso that seemed to be a solid mass of some sort. George scrambled into the car

[00:12:37] and pushed his wife and child onto the floor. He grabbed a knife out of the glove compartment,

[00:12:42] the creature moved closer until it was directly in front of the car. It reached out a spindly

[00:12:46] arm that ended in soft, bisected fork of fingers and ran it across the windshield and hood,

[00:12:53] as though it was examining the car. Then it turned and glided back into the woods to

[00:12:59] disappearing from sight. Within a few minutes, a global light rose slowly above the trees and

[00:13:04] moved into the sky, suddenly shooting away in a trail of brilliant light. Badly shaken,

[00:13:09] George tried the ignition again and this time the car started without a problem. They drove

[00:13:14] into the reach of truck stop diner, probably near Sutton and went inside to compose themselves.

[00:13:20] They resolved not to talk about what had happened, they then found a hotel and spent the night.

[00:13:24] The next morning George found a fork discoloration of the hood where of his car were the end of

[00:13:29] the untouched it. The metal looked like it would have been cinched. A couple days later on set

[00:13:34] 10-15th resident of Wheeling, sent up a queue and cry of calls to the police department about

[00:13:39] sightings of a monster near Veniertel House and Development near Okalby Park. The media dubbed the

[00:13:45] creature a fugitive from Faryland, which flew in on a flying saucer. It left before anyone

[00:13:51] actually saw it, thus earning the nickname Batchful Billy. All the calls to police apparently

[00:13:57] were secondhand reports. However, there were reports of a body of a badly burned woman

[00:14:02] that then appeared with no father details provided. The original witnesses of flat woods were subject

[00:14:09] to intense media scrutiny in the aftermath. Men who said they were from the government,

[00:14:15] and Washington came and interviewed them and took away their oral stained clothing,

[00:14:19] bits of metal and plastic and any other pieces of evidence. None of it was ever returned.

[00:14:25] Descriptions on the monster reported in the media became distorted, the creature had

[00:14:29] bulging eyes, clawed hands and was green with a blood-red face. It wore a munk-like roe

[00:14:34] britoonic. It was half man and half dragon at brief fire. It was a Frankenstein monster with

[00:14:41] BO. Police were, quote, a dismissing the monsters, a product of mass hysteria. The original

[00:14:47] witnesses were invited to be interviewed by the press into pure television. They were portrayed

[00:14:52] as ignorant countryfoul, whose imaginations had run away with them and had been scared out of their

[00:14:58] spirits. In the Charleston Daily Mail reported on September 15,

[00:15:02] that the monster was nothing more than the combination of an airplane warning beacon and a

[00:15:07] flashing media reflected on the trunk of a dead tree. On September 23, the Charleston Gazette

[00:15:12] ran an interview with a local insurance man in amateur astronar who insisted that the monster

[00:15:17] was an illusion created by gases from a media. Earl Stevens of Bell said that fireballs originate

[00:15:25] from a electrical discharge in the earth at our atmosphere and give off sulfurous gases.

[00:15:31] Stevens said one of the parties apparently flashed the light on the gas ball just the incident

[00:15:35] before it disintegrated into the fin air. The reflection of the light onto the gas gave its

[00:15:40] shape the people described he said. Stevens offered his testimony to the Gazette and the interests

[00:15:45] of what he'd termed, attempting to erase the fear of supernatural beings from the minds of the

[00:15:51] people. On October 9, the Charleston Daily Mail rave, considerable space to a woman identified

[00:15:58] as on Rebecca Frame, aged 90 who insisted that the Braxton monster was pure silliness and was

[00:16:05] mistaken for a snake which grow big up there. With such convoluted ludicrous explanations as above,

[00:16:12] ordinary citizens might have more to fear from the so-called experts than any supernatural beings.

[00:16:18] Kathleen May said she received a letter from Washington DC about a month after the incident

[00:16:23] informing her that the object was an experimental military craft designed for little travel.

[00:16:29] And that for them had appeared in the skies on the night that they encountered the monster.

[00:16:34] This seems to be corroborated by the publication of an article about moon rockets and

[00:16:38] Collier's magazine at the same time at the arrival of the letter.

[00:16:43] The flatwoods case attracted the intention of leading UFO researchers at the time,

[00:16:47] among them retired major Donald E. Keeho, Ibron T. Sanderson in Great Marker who conducted their own

[00:16:53] interviews. Sanderson concluded that the case was real and that the monster was from somewhere else

[00:16:58] not Earth. Keeho commented that this was the weirdest of all saucer stories and had dangerous

[00:17:05] implications because of its fearsome creature, intelligent enough to build and control spaceships.

[00:17:12] To the public and media, however, the story was of more of a cardinal side show.

[00:17:17] After a flurry of attention, the case fell into the backwaters.

[00:17:20] Inevitably claims of hoaxing surfaced. In 1977, reporter Adrian Gwynn of the Charleston Daily Mail

[00:17:27] revisited the Brackson County monster case and reported that the newspaper had been contacted recently

[00:17:33] by a former resident of West Virginia who claimed responsibility for hoaxing the monster.

[00:17:37] Bill Stewart's, formerly of St. Alvin's and Sutton, and at the time of his writing a resident

[00:17:43] of West Palm Beach, Florida. Set that on the 9th of September 12th, 1952, he and Aestuartly

[00:17:49] Jr were driving from heaters to Sutton when they ran out of gas. Stewart said no letter to the paper.

[00:17:56] We noticed it disturbance across the river went to investigate. There were some small children all

[00:18:00] stirred up. Having a solid off-12 gauge in the car, he went on the hill to see what was going on.

[00:18:05] The kids have been playing at a pasture field and some of Bailey Fisher's cows were in the nearby

[00:18:10] woods. Seeing that nothing had happened, we went on to Sutton. Being slightly intoxicated,

[00:18:16] we fabricated the story of the Brackson County monster. We called the Gazette from the Brackson

[00:18:20] Democrat office. Stewart's dad and the newspaper at the time. The skid marks were made by Bailey's

[00:18:26] own-forged tractor spinning its wheels. The grease was right from under the tractor by tall grass.

[00:18:31] We drew the artist's picture of the monster. From there it just mustroom, Kathleen May and

[00:18:36] her children went to New York on a TV show, scientists were all overcame to investigate.

[00:18:42] We sat back in laughter. My father knew what we'd boys were doing but his store was doing a booming

[00:18:47] business from the tourist trade. As with most hoax claims, no evidence was offered just to claim

[00:18:53] itself. Many people will believe a claim such as this despite the overwhelming

[00:18:57] evidence to the contrary. It says though human beings are uncomfortable with evidence of

[00:19:01] undencretures in our midst and thus will grab at any straw to convince themselves otherwise.

[00:19:06] In 1990, Frank, C, Fescina Jr., an artist and paranormal researcher became interested in the

[00:19:13] flatwoods case while visiting relatives in Brackson County. Rivided he began an investigation that

[00:19:18] consumed much of his life for the next decade. Fescina, tracked down original eyewitnesses,

[00:19:24] delved in the media reports and government documents, an interviewed military and government sources.

[00:19:30] He published his findings in 2004 in his book The Brackson County Monster,

[00:19:35] the cover up with a flatwoods monster revealed, revised in 2007. The summary of this case is

[00:19:41] based on his well-researched investigation. Fescina had a different account of a least

[00:19:46] toward Jr., whom he located for an interview. Stewart had left West Virginia in 1958

[00:19:52] and he left the Brackson County monster story behind him as well. He was said Fescina was

[00:19:58] shocked at how he'd been grossly misquoted and portrayed by previous reporters and writers.

[00:20:03] According to Stewart, after getting the call from the state trooper Ted Trippett about 9 p.m.,

[00:20:08] he headed out to the May home. In route he passed its sewer's house where a bill in his father

[00:20:14] were still working and picked up bill that take along. At the May home they found panic and turmoil.

[00:20:20] Stewart recruited a group to investigate. They were armed with 12-age automatic shotguns and handguns.

[00:20:27] At the site they found the skinmarks noted the lingering foul odor but found them monster.

[00:20:32] They returned to the May home where Stewart talked more with the witnesses. He then took

[00:20:37] billstores home and went back to his office. He called a friend who had a real-to-real tape recorder

[00:20:43] that he wanted to borrow to interview the witnesses on record, which he intended to do the next day.

[00:20:48] He contacted his attorney, Owen Barry to ask advice on breaking the story. He went to Barry's home

[00:20:54] and Barry placed a call to the Charleston Gazette at about 2 a.m., explaining to the paper that Stewart

[00:21:00] should be credited with breaking the story. The Chino found enough corroborating accounts and evidence

[00:21:06] to make a number of conclusions. One that the meteors that flashed through the skies in September

[00:21:12] of 1952 were actually 16 alien craft in groups of four. They appeared over a golf in Mexico where

[00:21:18] mock war game exercises were taking place. Fuchino speculates that perhaps the aliens thought

[00:21:24] the game through real war and were monitoring them. Their crafts were detected and were pursued

[00:21:29] by Air Force fighter jets, which can gauge them in combat. One of the craft was damaged in

[00:21:34] the land of the flatwoods. The maroon creature that was seen by witnesses was encased in a metallic

[00:21:39] suit and was seen by the snaccalcies partially out of its suit. It evidently was rescued and

[00:21:46] another damaged craft crash at wheeling. The creature may have been killed in its body

[00:21:50] recovered up by authorities who substituted a burned woman corpse, cover story to the flat

[00:21:56] attention. Government officials quickly moved to collect evidence, describe it the witnesses,

[00:22:01] and dismiss the entire affair. I think that was a very interesting story. I couldn't really even

[00:22:11] imagine what that would have been like, especially back then when we don't have the context

[00:22:18] for different kinds of aliens or extraterrestrials that we do now.

[00:22:23] Yes, especially considering, we're talking a very rural area. Most of these people,

[00:22:29] there are only sorts of medias generally just books and radio at this point. Newspapers.

[00:22:36] But to mobilize the national guard and the air force,

[00:22:47] and to mobilize the national guard and bring them into that area,

[00:22:51] everybody's going to take notice of that. It's going to be a total hell in a hand basket.

[00:22:56] Everybody's going to be a little bit like their nuts. But I don't get it. The amount of people

[00:23:01] and I get it. This was a point in time where we had Uranium glass all over the place,

[00:23:08] but to be like, oh, there's an alien. I'm going to get a souvenir.

[00:23:12] But it takes us this thing up. Let's kind of give me arm cancer 20 years from now.

[00:23:17] Yeah, I mean, I'm going to walk around this in my pocket with a souvenir. You know, my

[00:23:20] kidneys are going to shut down. But it looks cool. It's shiny. It's neat. You pick up neat things.

[00:23:25] Yeah. But I definitely think something happened. Otherwise there wouldn't be if it did actually

[00:23:30] scrambled the national guard and everything. Something had to happen. It wasn't just,

[00:23:35] they wouldn't do that for no reason. Something had to have occurred.

[00:23:41] Yeah, definitely. I mean, whether it's not an alien, spiritual entity, or regardless,

[00:23:48] maybe even though some kind of government program that had to do with maybe, I don't know,

[00:23:53] some kind of aircraft. Now, the monster itself is a little hard to really say that and

[00:23:59] involved in like the military directly, especially with the technology at the time. Although,

[00:24:04] for all I know that could have been some kind of weird mechanized suit that they were using

[00:24:12] or something. It's out. I'm doing some mental gymnastics just trying to even play devil's advocate

[00:24:17] because like if it's to statements are true, what, you know, as accurate as possible to

[00:24:23] what the eyed witnesses have seen, it's very, very frequently. Oh yeah. And to say that these people

[00:24:30] they're just like dumb ignorant, like country bumpkins. Yeah. Poe don't kill movies. Confused it

[00:24:36] with an owl or a reflection of their flashlight off the gas of a meteor is just, I think,

[00:24:44] ridiculous. Yeah, especially considering when you look at the sketches that were done by

[00:24:49] the witnesses with the police department or I can't remember who it was in the story from the

[00:24:56] other media that I was looking into this with but they gave reports and sketches of the entity

[00:25:03] they witnessed and they all gave the same statements with the drawings. Like, it wasn't like a mix-up

[00:25:09] words we had them draw it out and we can clearly see that they all seen something. Yeah, you

[00:25:14] was think that if it was some kind of mass psychosis or like a shared hallucination you think

[00:25:22] to be more psychoactive, vly-induced hypnosis via chemical gas exposure. Yeah, you'd think there would

[00:25:31] be much more of a variation between the eyed witness accounts but there was not. They all pretty

[00:25:35] much say the same thing. I get it, you know, person by themselves, you know, maybe a crashed plane

[00:25:43] with some kind of noxious fume, maybe like a carbon monoxide they were a little loopy and you know,

[00:25:48] maybe see like titale lights and they were like oh holy shit, maybe I'll demon. But yeah,

[00:25:52] for all of them to be like this is what I saw. I draw it. We didn't do just buy each other. You

[00:25:58] know, interview just separately but we all draw the same thing. Well now you come to conclusions

[00:26:03] that we all saw the same thing. So yeah, it's a little bit peculiar. Yeah, I'm sure. And then you

[00:26:09] get into the whole incident that happened near Frangtown with the citacowskis and it's like

[00:26:14] so was the thing damaged and it had to like rip off part of the suit and that's why I went from

[00:26:22] what the maze saw in flatwoods where the whole thing looked metallic to where now only like the

[00:26:30] bottom half is metallic. But the upper half is not to go until you inform. I've heard some

[00:26:36] of some people say they theorized that the reason it was love attaining on the ground and had

[00:26:40] that like cone like skirt is because it didn't have legs but it had more of like a serpent like

[00:26:46] lower half where it was just like a snake. Yeah, that will not make so little bit more of the

[00:26:51] spiritual thing. And then the maybe alien entity kind of deal because if you look back for like

[00:26:58] most folklore throughout the Aztecs to the Sumerian to the Babylonians like with the serpent

[00:27:06] like beans that descended and you know all that kind of stuff which yeah, you could argue that's

[00:27:13] same species alien or it could be this is the physical representation of a spiritual entity that

[00:27:19] is just occurring but the the whole idea of putting its palm on the vehicle and leaving the handprint

[00:27:28] I want to see what that you know car looked like afterwards. I want to see some actual photos

[00:27:31] of that. That would have been cool if they did actually take pictures of the vehicle afterwards

[00:27:37] and say hey look here is like the handprint from where this being touched the car

[00:27:43] but they were so shook up about it that they didn't even want to speak about this event for a long time

[00:27:49] after it occurred. Yeah, so plus I mean we're talking about more than likely they didn't really

[00:27:54] go into like the background of the family they might have been not the most well off and cameras were

[00:27:59] well I'm pretty expensive back then so you know a lot people didn't have they all you know and a lot

[00:28:05] people didn't have just a camera you know just with them at all times obviously and you know when

[00:28:11] they were traveling from was it Ohio to New York. So most people have been like I mean they're going

[00:28:23] really not even worried about that kind of stuff you know it's not. Well they did have a camera

[00:28:27] it was they made very well have been packed away with their closing things that too. With um

[00:28:33] and to go back to the the cell of sulfur there's there's that the sulfur is sent again. Yeah

[00:28:42] definitely like so you have a serpent like reptilian sulfur right eyes um they're all kind of getting a

[00:28:51] similar to that. Yeah there's some people that will say it's just the overarching for now and

[00:28:56] up but like it could be maybe like the sulfurous scent is like a side effect of any kind of

[00:29:04] potential interdimensional being jumping into like our plane of existence you know so like maybe

[00:29:10] something happens when something comes through so that's why you would hear that metallic sound or

[00:29:16] that's why you get that the smell of ozone or sulfur because like that's like a side effect

[00:29:22] of like opening the gate to get into this plane of existence. Yeah the ozone that's exactly what I was

[00:29:27] about the touch on was uh you get a lot of that too but those encounters are usually a lot different

[00:29:33] with the ozone smell. Now with the sulfur it always seems to be like an entity of like malice

[00:29:40] or like at least gives the people the impression of they're about to be harmed maybe a

[00:29:44] level of being of some nature possibly uh of the demonic equation. Yeah. That could definitely

[00:29:52] be a possibility. This is at the time of project paperclip was it really in its full swing and we

[00:29:57] know how the Nazis are really into the occult so it's possibility that's why the military was even

[00:30:03] mustard up to begin with is they were doing something and then they were waiting for something to fall

[00:30:07] down that's why they were so much more distruthed potentially. I do think it's pretty interesting

[00:30:11] how all this happened in the in a course of a couple days when there was a huge flap of

[00:30:18] other UFO sightings. I think that helps lead I think that helps lend a little bit more

[00:30:23] credence to the whole this whole story and event for the eyewitnesses because it wasn't just happening

[00:30:30] just in flatwoods but there are sightings in a huge thing of UFOs a whole across the entire

[00:30:35] eastern part of the United States and later the investigator for Shinole like if he was

[00:30:41] correct and there was like even things spotted all the down from the golf and Mexico up. That

[00:30:46] makes me think that it was just another attempt by the government potentially to try and down one

[00:30:53] of these crafts to collect any kind of material or evidence that they could to further their um

[00:31:00] you know the research into extraterrestrials. Yeah and considering the government as what and within

[00:31:07] the last I want to say two years was it was it was a 22 when they released that the statement that

[00:31:13] UFOs are yeah I think it was 2022 were they released that statement regarding UAPs. Yeah with the

[00:31:23] the naval pilot footage of the tiktok. So it's almost like how far back does the government records

[00:31:31] go on this how long were they making contact how long were they engaging with them because if we

[00:31:37] can't engage with the aircraft now you know no chance back in you know 1952. I mean yeah I'm curious how

[00:31:46] yeah got well they'd be um just sorry jets yeah but I was kind of curious it's like how

[00:31:55] how were they able to shoot it down you know was it like did they actually were the Air Force pilots

[00:32:02] actually able to shoot it down or was it a case where like some people think that it was this

[00:32:09] it was dropped on purpose. Yeah kind of like how a lot of the uh skeptics or what would you call

[00:32:17] them not really a skeptic but people's theories on the gifting program kind of like uh you know

[00:32:24] we just have these ships you know we use data drop them off kind of situation like here you go have

[00:32:31] media. So maybe it was just pure coincidence that the people in flatwoods ran into this being

[00:32:38] when they did maybe they thought since it was like a rail on off area that they weren't going

[00:32:43] to encounter anybody and there was also surprise on the beings and that it wouldn't end anybody.

[00:32:48] Yeah there is that too I mean that kind of maybe through a wrench and their plans. Yeah they

[00:32:54] landed in the you know heavily water area if this was from let's put it double's advocate and say

[00:33:01] that yes this was in fact real and an extra terrestrial being that was gathering the data on like

[00:33:09] maybe you don't know flora fauna, soil samples whatever uh good old dick finger here was doing.

[00:33:16] I don't think it was gathering any samples like because it doesn't seem like it was trying to

[00:33:20] do anything like that like another story so I've read about when things are gathering samples like

[00:33:26] they're usually like chance upon by somebody and the beings are actively like taking samples

[00:33:31] of the soil or anything like that. I think it was either either crashed on purpose or somehow

[00:33:39] the US government was able to shoot it down and it crashed in flatwoods. The people just happened to

[00:33:45] close enough by to be able to go and see it before it was able to evacuate itself. Yeah true.

[00:33:52] A little odd though that they make it all the ways you know all the here crash. A little odd

[00:33:59] that they always crash. It is kind of where you think we have having such advanced technology capable

[00:34:04] of like faster than light travel potentially like they get here and all of a sudden they're just

[00:34:10] crashing with a strong breeze. It doesn't seem like that's the case unless there is the chance

[00:34:16] you know with the whole ultra terrestrial theory where they're not from outer space. They're just

[00:34:24] from a different dimension. That's more of the the stance I take on most of the cryptosulological

[00:34:31] and the extraterrestrial. I was able to believe it to be an extra dimensional being mostly

[00:34:39] I'm just one of the nants in the demon but you know because uh not the best impression all

[00:34:46] now they definitely don't give the the best impression they don't seem to be at least these ones

[00:34:51] and like things like the reptilian or the grays they don't seem to be very benevolent at all.

[00:34:57] Now they're always you're coming over here scaring people or playing with people's holes

[00:35:03] or making holes. I would say things are either they're either neutral and had their own agenda

[00:35:11] or they're evil and they're just trying to use humanity as a resource the further their plans.

[00:35:18] So we know that in the aftermath the main eyewitnesses were treated absolutely awful. They were

[00:35:28] ridiculed, shamed and then I think that stopped a lot of other eyewitnesses from even coming

[00:35:34] forward because you know there's no need to cover up other people if you take the first group

[00:35:40] and you make them an example of like this will happen to you your life will be made a living hell

[00:35:47] if you try to come out with any story or count of this. Yeah I mean most people don't want to

[00:35:54] stand up and say hey I saw it too after you just witnessed a whole the more lization campaign

[00:36:00] down your friends and neighbors. There were other sightings of at least like the flying saucers

[00:36:06] but those people didn't come out I say flying saucer I mean UFO or UAP those people didn't even

[00:36:12] come come out until decades later because they were so worried about what would happen to them

[00:36:19] as well. Well yeah I mean you'd be basically ostracized every time you go down to the store

[00:36:26] I mean you would have to have at least a few times you look up and see people eat your A talking

[00:36:30] about you're giving you an outlook like hey look there's African weirdo advice all UFO little

[00:36:35] green man. I mean you're you're definitely going to get that. Oh for sure. Even after the fact

[00:36:42] even when they felt it was probably comfortable to say I mean you probably go have people still doing that.

[00:36:47] Yeah I think unfortunately even though they just troll their truth of their experience they

[00:36:54] were definitely like the whole accusation were just tarnished because of that.

[00:36:58] I mean could you like really put yourself in their shoes? I mean you see something where

[00:37:03] you're questioning everything at this point like down to the well the bare minimum really

[00:37:08] I mean because you're going to be like well if I stand up and say something I'm questioning

[00:37:12] you know what's going to happen to me in my social circles. Am I going to face some kind of

[00:37:17] threatening like behavior done by the government to me? Like am I going to be silenced?

[00:37:23] You have to you know really question or like did I really see it and like did it really happen

[00:37:28] you'd be playing it all back but you still see all the other people around you who did come out

[00:37:34] and say that they saw the same same situation really verbatim what you saw but you would

[00:37:38] really be putting it like a rock and hard place with your whole situation I mean as far as dealing

[00:37:44] with the burden of witnessing it alone is going to really cause like just absolute upending of your life.

[00:37:52] Yeah and I think for most people or at least a lot of them that it's not worth it it's just

[00:37:58] it's just better to play it say from keep quiet. Yeah and that's like I mean let's say it's not in an

[00:38:05] use you saw a government program that you weren't supposed to see and you did it in a time where

[00:38:12] I mean people nowadays have obviously I mean currently we're right now on a podcast but we have

[00:38:18] more of an access to use our voice and first amendment right to come out and speak but this was

[00:38:25] at a time on place where like I mean yes you had the right to speak but you were also limited to your town

[00:38:31] I mean you'd be pretty hard to even get your help. Yeah unless you're able to get onto

[00:38:35] like a national newspaper or a very large radio station it would be very hard.

[00:38:42] Yeah our contacts some kind of publisher or some other you know I don't know media outlet but

[00:38:47] that's that you're limited to a media outlet you're not limited to your own voice so

[00:38:52] under the threat of government suppression you're you're pretty shit out of luck. Yeah pretty much

[00:38:58] I mean if your voice did get out they you may have gotten out and maybe a couple articles and

[00:39:02] like some UFO magazines. Yeah which there were UFO researchers? A couple of you know this was

[00:39:08] after a RAW as well. Yeah right so you have the chance of having somewhat of a I don't know

[00:39:18] a soapbox to speak on but really you're kind of the platform from the start for sure.

[00:39:26] Overall I think this is a very interesting story and it's a great bridge between the UFO

[00:39:33] community and then the monster slash cryptid community. I think it's a very fun story no matter

[00:39:40] what happened I think it is a very it's just fun to be able to talk about these sorts of things.

[00:39:48] Yeah especially uh with the overlap that you get between the supernatural paranormal aspects

[00:39:55] with the sci-fi you know like spooky spaceman stuff that's pretty fun. But yeah I think

[00:40:03] like this is definitely a subject that really like got my attention as a kid

[00:40:08] really drew me into the whole cryptid and paranormal stuff really got my

[00:40:15] same here I think it definitely helped create a more of a fascination with the paranormal.

[00:40:23] Yeah like subjects like if you think of a quest for genia they you get a lot of the the overlaps

[00:40:28] of the paranormal and the cryptid like especially with like mulled man you know flatwoods.

[00:40:35] Yeah it's a very active state. All right everybody thank you so much for tuning in to this

[00:40:40] episode of Enter the Refpodcast please like subscribe leave us a review tell your friends

[00:40:47] it's greatly appreciated thank you guys so much for listening I have a great night.